Wedgehorn EQ

EQ guys are using on their cabs/systems. A good starting place if you don't have your own RTA.
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byacey
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Wedgehorn EQ

#1 Post by byacey »

I completed a WH8 for testing, and my first impression without any EQ, is this thing is very honky between 250 and 600 Hz. It took almost 12db of cut in this region to smooth them out. After EQ with a 1/3 octave graph, they don't seem to be too bad, and vocals with an SM58 sound pretty good with adequate gain before feedback. My only concern is by adding another 5 wedges on a stage and having a mixed bag of mics for acoustic instruments, SM58s and Sennheiser SKM100 G2 mics with an MD835 for vocals.

I understand the ideal situation of having all mics matched, but I certainly don't want to be balancing on the feedback fence with a bunch of instrument mics in the mix. How have you other users of Wedge Horns dealt with these sort of situations?
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byacey
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#2 Post by byacey »

Nobody uses these for production work? Should this be posted in the wedge horn forum?
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Rickisan
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#3 Post by Rickisan »

I have built two Wedgehorn 8's. Just now getting in to the EQ'ing of them. Maybe by my posting here will generate some interest and answers for you.

I do know it is often suggested to EQ the "opposite" of the response chart in order to flatten the response curve. Good Luck!
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Haysus
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#4 Post by Haysus »

I have 6 WH 10's that I use for production work. EQ is needed to flatten the response of the cabs. I have a -30db cut @ 2k and never have feed back. Mixed mics are not a problem for me. Remember that if you need lots of volume add more cabs instead attenuation. That reduces the potential of feed back.

I own 2 WH8's but they stay in the practice room. 2 on 1 mic can get ridiculously loud if needed.

The design of the cab was to improve response of the frequencies that cut thru for singers. Unfortunately I have found singers want the mix to sound like a studio recording.

I hope this helps.

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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Haysus wrote:I have a -30db cut @ 2k and never have feed back.
Maybe if I'd known this - I wouldn't have sold 'em. :wink:

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Haysus wrote: Unfortunately I have found singers want the mix to sound like a studio recording.
If you use an auto EQ, like the DEQ 2496, to get response ruler flat, it will. I do that with my W6s, and they sound as good as any speaker you'll ever hear. But depending on the room and the overall stage level sounding perfect doesn't mean cutting through, so I only use perfectly flat in-room response as the starting point. In general to get vocals to cut through even the loudest stage that means increased output centered around 500Hz, right where they're the most sensitive.
I have a -30db cut @ 2k and never have feed back
I don't do that, but I do use the FBD in the 2496, and I can't get them to feed back.

byacey
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#7 Post by byacey »

Thanks for the replies. Currently for my testing I just have a 1/3 octave graph in line. It's tamed the big peaks, but the filter bandwidths are not tight enough to flatten it out completely. It's looking like I'll have to dedicate a processor to run a herd of these on stage.

The 10K centered peak I was concerned about in a previous post seems benign enough in practice, although I seem to have deep notch at 2K; flipping the phase on the horns didn't make any difference. I'll have to have a closer look at the crossover and see what's happening there, although from some of the replies here, that notch may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Perhaps another possibility is phase cancellation due to the spacing of the panel mounted horns, although the notch is much narrower than what I would expect if it was indeed phase cancellation.
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racertomtom
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#8 Post by racertomtom »

I’m pretty new with the WH8. I’m in a Hard Rock band with old guys that have collected equipment for decades and have a back line that can make most Kiddy Bands run and hide. That leaves me behind the drums trying to sift through the noise.

I’ve found that the only way to test a monitor is at a live gig. I rushed my first build to get it to a gig, and used it as is with no eq, just pulled everything down below 100hz. I was impressed enough that I committed to 3 more WH8s. The next gig I auto eq’d the system and couldn’t hear squat, sounded good though.

Friday night I went back to stock as a baseline, cut everything below 200 and everything above 15k, I boosted the low around 5-6k and left all the peaks alone. It was the best setting to date, I’m not sure what the FBD was doing but I didn’t hear any squeaks. I could hear the vocals and had a little lead guitar.

I just now referenced the plans and it recommended 125-12k with the boost at around 5k. The next time out I will leave the low cut alone as I already have plenty of noise in the range, cut the high end at 12k and boost the 300-800 range even more and lower the high peaks. Hopefully that will do it. As a side note, I inadvertently left the monitor feed on at first break while playing recorded music. It sounded like crap. I simply killed the feed and let the FOH do its job.
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#9 Post by Grant Bunter »

I use 31 band EQ on my three and after setting them up as per plans, I find using "smiley face" adjustments (notably 4K) generally works, tweaked room to room.
However, I have series/parallel melded array, so don't know how much that would help you.

One day I will get more DEQ's to use on mons to use FBD...
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#10 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

byacey wrote:Thanks for the replies. Currently for my testing I just have a 1/3 octave graph in line.
The DEQ 2496 is a 1/3 octave (31 band) EQ. It gets my W6s to plus/minus 2dB from 100 to 16kHz.

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kekani
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#11 Post by kekani »

I ran a baseline auto-eq on my DRPA+ ( dbx indoor method, outdoors, which actually worked well, for me) for the Jacks and W6's separately, and saw what it did with the graphic eq, then manually input those numbers and saved them. The results are similar to reversing the SPL Chart data, but not exactly

I did 3 different baseline profiles for the Jacks (which the DRPA does), but kept the W6's flat.
Also input a hp and lp on the W6's, cutting everything below 100, and over 12.5k, or something like that.

Select saved program at the gig, run the AFS Wizard (6 flat, 6 roam), and no feedback.

Right or wrong with the settings, it works for me, WAY better than with the 31 channel eq I ran before. And I thought that was the bomb!
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byacey
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#12 Post by byacey »

This afternoon I took the graph out and ran the feed through a DRPA. I set the high pass at 100Hz with a 24db/octave slope, and then set up my reference condenser mic about where a vocalists head would be, aimed dead center with the monitor.

I then ran the auto EQ with pink noise. After when I reviewed the EQ, it turned out to be almost exactly how I manually set the graph except around 4 to 6K that I had cut further on the 31 band graph. After that, I set up an SM58 on the same stand, but with the back of the mic facing the wedge. When testing the SM58 through the DRPA, it wanted to ring around 5K indicating more cut was required around that band.

I swapped out the DRPA and put the 31 band graph back in line, and I was back where I started. It doesn't seem to me there is much to be gained from using the DRPA over a graph, except for the sliding feedback filters and limiting. Somehow, I don't think I'll be driving these anywhere close to where limiting is required. :D

By the way, I panel mounted the Piezos, each side (3 Piezos) all paralleled, and then the two sides in series. I may put more of them in series in an attempt to lower the HF output so less corrective EQ is required.

Edit: I'm thinking maybe I should dedicate a DRPA for the monitors; I don't like the idea of the sliding filters changing my FOH mix as in the case of a DRPA shared between FOH and monitors. This would also allow me to run two monitor mixes.
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kekani
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#13 Post by kekani »

byacey wrote:. . . It doesn't seem to me there is much to be gained from using the DRPA over a graph, except for the sliding feedback filters and limiting. . .

Edit: I'm thinking maybe I should dedicate a DRPA for the monitors; I don't like the idea of the sliding filters changing my FOH mix as in the case of a DRPA shared between FOH and monitors. This would also allow me to run two monitor mixes.
Personally, once I activated the hp on the mains (and hp and lp on the mons), I was able to get a better sound than with just the geq. Not that the geq was bad by any means, but it cleaned up the Jacks to the point where every single vocal nuance could be heard out front. This is not good for bad vocalists :D

Because of what the DRPA did for my FOH, I planned the opposite of you and would use my geq for the mons, if I ever needed room for more signal sources. Of course, a DR260 could do that, if space in the rack becomes a consideration, and $$$ does not.

Just a different means to a similar end. Either way would work.

Of course, this could be a totally biased view with my listening with my eyes and/or wanting the DRPA+ to sound better. In any case, when I think we sound good, I play better.
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byacey
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#14 Post by byacey »

I would still keep a DRPA on the mains as well; meanwhile with another DRPA for the monitor mixes I would still keep the dual channel graph inserted ahead of the DRPA for any quick corrections that may crop up.

Anyways, I can see now what sort of EQ is required, and what sort of levels I can expect from the wedges. Physically, I like the size and weight of the WH8; it's not a strain to carry a couple around or re-position them quickly during changeovers.

What should these be limited to preventing over excursion?
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Wedgehorn EQ

#15 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

byacey wrote: What should these be limited to preventing over excursion?
High pass at 90Hz, limit to 20v, though at 20v anyone within eight feet of one will wish that they weren't.

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