DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

EQ guys are using on their cabs/systems. A good starting place if you don't have your own RTA.
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Grant Bunter
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#16 Post by Grant Bunter »

Rich,
If your pink noise seems quiet when you hit auto (the lowest setting for pink noise in auto is -60dB, right side of the screen) turn the large dial on the right to raise it.

Even if it seems quiet, it's not a problem. It will auto EQ.
The DEQ will tell you if ambient noise v pink noise is to high with an "error" message on screen. So up your gain with the large dial and go again.

To summarise:
Press RTA.
Press auto EQ
With top small dial on right select 20K (or your desired top frequency)
With bottom small dial turn so that arrows show all the way down to your selected low frequency (eg 40Hz)
Press page
Press auto EQ.
If your mode is "slow" (bottom right hand of the screen) give it a couple of minutes or so.
Press done.
Press page (once or twice, can't remember) to see your result.
Then tweak by ear
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#17 Post by Rich4349 »

Great, that did it, Grant. Who would think that the guy with the solution to my problem would be a mere 12,000 miles away? Thanks a lot!

And you were right, I WAS getting the noise:signal error message. Man, the pink noise sounds like crap (irregular, like an AM radio during a storm) compared to how it sounds on my PC.

Now, is there some way to save this setting as a preset, or is it already?
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Grant Bunter
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#18 Post by Grant Bunter »

Rich4349 wrote:Great, that did it, Grant. Who would think that the guy with the solution to my problem would be a mere 12,000 miles away? Thanks a lot!

And you were right, I WAS getting the noise:signal error message. Man, the pink noise sounds like crap (irregular, like an AM radio during a storm) compared to how it sounds on my PC.

Now, is there some way to save this setting as a preset, or is it already?
No worries, most welcome!

Now I'm hoping I remember the rest correctly!

If you turn it off, it will recall the last setting when powered back on. Push GEQ button to bring it up.
That's fine if you never change it venue to venue, but that won't happen lol.
So (I think, bit blurry on this one) hit memory and whichever button is "Store" or "save". Dial to store location (say storage position number 1) then it will bring up a screen so you can name it, give it a name (eg system tune).

You go to a new venue. Power it up. Should be set on "system tune", if not, recall that by hitting the memory button again and recall position one, it will prompt you, enter yes.

Then run auto EQ for that venue.
Hit memory and save to (say) storage position 2 and name it eg brown's bar.

Keep doing this for say 10 different venues. By that stage you should have covered most venue types. small to large odd shapes etc.

If you remember the various venue types you can just recall the most appropriate save and you're off and running, or just Auto EQ every venue.

I hope that's right and makes sense...

edit: I did this with my subs and tops together. I have 2 saved settings so far, "2 subs", "4 subs". Same also on the DCX. All my auto EQ's have been done as full system tuning rather than tops then subs. But if you play around with the DEQ some you will see you can check out "low" and "high" subgroups as well
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#19 Post by Rich4349 »

Spot on, again! Got the file saved, and now know how to repeat the process. For a minute there I was afraid that my Ebay purchases of DEQ2496 and the RTA mic were bad ones. Nope, just user error.

Thanks again.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Grant Bunter
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#20 Post by Grant Bunter »

It's all good, we all live and learn.

Here's hoping others having similar problems find this info useful as well...

edit: hope this helps too.

If you leave your reference mike in the RTA input and you're in a suitable position, hit "meter" then cycle through the pages, you'll bring up your SPL meter.
I turned weighting off.
Better than having a hand held SPL meter and if you know how far the mike is from the cabs, you can do a better than fair estimate of SPL at 1 metre
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#21 Post by Rich4349 »

And when I'm done setting the RTA, I need to change the i/o input back to "main in" in order to actually play music, right? Or can the RTA run constantly during a performance, making adjustments on the fly?
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Grant Bunter
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Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#22 Post by Grant Bunter »

Rich,
You don't need to change from main in to pink noise to use RTA.
Just leave it on main in and when you hit RTA it will bring up pink noise itself, so you don't have to switch all the time.

I haven't got to this section yet, but the RTA will run all the time if you are in FBD mode, I should imagine...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#23 Post by Rich4349 »

A couple nights ago I sat up the DRs in a friend's shop, and he was able to manually set the DEQ to get pretty good sound out of them. (At least the best sound I've heard from them yet. ) I noted each frequency and its level. Once home I replicated those settings on my own DEQ (inside my small spare bedroom). It sounded "ok", but definitely not as good as the night before. Does the nature of the DR's horn cause it to have a different tonality at significantly lower SPLs?

I will post my EQ settings tomorrow for others' opinions on them. I really want to like the DRs but I'm getting kinda frustrated.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Bruce Weldy
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#24 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Rich4349 wrote: Does the nature of the DR's horn cause it to have a different tonality at significantly lower SPLs?

No, but coming up with settings in a garage absolutely will. That's the worst place for setting EQ. Too small.

Do it outside - that will give you a baseline flat EQ. Then you can sweeten it based on the venue you are in.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Rich4349
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Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#25 Post by Rich4349 »

I wouldn't really have called it a garage. About 30x50 with 10' ceilings. Agreed far from a banquet room. Anyone feel free to compare the following settings to your own and comment / recommend. With windchill right now it's -4, so outside measurements might have to wait a couple of days.

100 +8
125 +7
160 +8.5
200 +11
250 +7
315 +6
400 +8.5
500 +2.5
630 +2.5
800 +1.5
1000 +2
1250 +2
1600 +1
2000 -2.5
2500 -5
3150 -2.5
4000 -.5
5000 0
6.3k +1.5
8 k +1.5
10k +3
12.5k +4
16k +5
20k +6.5
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#26 Post by Grant Bunter »

Rich,
I agree with Bruce. Although it might be a large garage, they are not "good" rooms to EQ in.

This is a generalisation, but tuning flat requires an amount of cuts and boosts.
I notice in your settings only a small number of cuts (compared to a lot of boosts).

From the outset, that means that your overall response curve is not flat. If you "mirror image" the DR SPL Chart (to give you an approximate flat baseline before auto EQing) you should have around 6 to 10 cuts. When I mirror imaged my DR's my resultant curve had nothing boosted or cut to more than 4dB either way.

To be fair to your friend, he EQ'ed by ear and got a result that you also liked (at the volume being played). That was only for that room.
Every room is different, so that's why it didn't sound as good at home.
It's not the cab being a horn cab, it's just the room.

That's why I said something like "keep saving auto EQ's for 10 rooms and you will cover quite a few venues".
Some people will save every room.

Oh, BTW, have you had a hearing test?
If not you should, so you have some idea of what you can actually hear.
I only say this because plenty of people can't even hear 20K, but the setting is +6dB at 20K!

Hope this helps...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#27 Post by Rich4349 »

Pretty much everything you said makes sense to me. I realized ahead of time that we / he would be EQing the system to the room, but I was really curious and desperate to hear the DRs live up to their reputation for me. I've tried:

1 Just RTA the room
2 RTA, then halve the extreme cuts or boosts to no more than +-6 dB
3 RTA, then wing it by ear
so I went with
4 a fresh and more experienced set of ears

I like to think I have decent auditory analytic abilities, though I would never claim Golden Ear status. I save that level of sensing for craft beer tastings. :D I DO, though, get hearing tests at my annual physicals. But I do also fall into the over 40 male category, which means I haven't been one to be able to hear things like the "mosquito ringtone" the 13 year old girls seem to favor. I've played with online tone generators, and after 15k I can sense a sound, but not truly hear it, though I can tell the difference somehow when those sliders are changed (significantly). It adds to the overall effect / flavor of the cymbals etc.

The other thing I noted, is that for EACH different song (from completely different artists, albums, years, and so on) that the EQ needed more than a hint of adjustment. I don't know if that's me being to fiddly, or what.

I'm really leaning toward one of the line arrays, since they seem to not need anywhere near the EQ taming. I know PA sound isn't going to be like my Decware HDTs, but I mean COME ON! Tin can / AM radio / 'what am I missing here' just aren't cutting it.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Grant Bunter
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#28 Post by Grant Bunter »

Rich,
You've kinda nailed it, if the majority of what you do is aimed at 13yo girls, then give them what they want!
If thats not the case though, and the audience is more mixed, the "older" ones will find those settings somewhat distasteful. So you then look for a balance.

Getting it near flat is just the starting point, a baseline. It's a given after that to tune to your own taste by ear, or by RTA, on a room to room basis.
You can spend all day and night playing with the EQ on a song to song basis. It's kinda wasted time though, and a distraction from the task at hand, because what you like to hear may not be everybody's cup of tea.
You just want EQ that is acceptable to the majority of people in the room.
You have to remember that the majority of those people only know "the sound", or "the beat", but can't describe why they don't like it if they don't.

I understand, you're trying to find the OMG everyone says about the DR's, and to you it hasn't happened yet (other than getting closer with your friends settings).
Until you get more reasonable weather, tune them mirror image, and if you think it's really necessary, tweak a little bit.
Or just trust the RTA.
I thought mine were "pretty good" in my garage (which is long and has doors at both ends which were open).
Once I got them outside, it was very very different :)

In the end though, you may find some rooms where it just doesn't sound awesome.
10:1 not many others can get their gear to sound awesome in there either, even the ones with golden ears...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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LelandCrooks
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#29 Post by LelandCrooks »

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 17&t=18810

Scroll down to beemer, about 1/2 way down. From my baseline these were set by an engineer with many many years of experience, outside. They are very good.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: DEQ Auto EQ settings for DR250 ???

#30 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Rich4349 wrote: Does the nature of the DR's horn cause it to have a different tonality at significantly lower SPLs?
No, but equal loudness curves do.
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