Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

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Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#16 Post by Grant Bunter »

HarleyM wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:
HarleyM wrote:most sound guys at shows I've played don't seem to prioritize micing up or even DIing the bass. We don't even get a sound check so it's nice to know I'm at least set on my own. :fingers:
Probably because most bass players are so loud that adding it to the PA in a small room isn't worth the trouble.

Personally, I always want everything in my mixes and try to get those who play too loud to turn down. If I'm not successful, I just take it out of the mix and feel musically frustrated for the rest of the night.
I agree completely. My trouble is, our drummer hammers extremely hard, all the time. I would love to get the drummer to soften up but getting drummers to do anything you want seems impossible. Always seems like the weak link. We're lucky if he shows up, let alone finding anyone else.
There's lots of drummers who will claim artistic license as the reason they hit hard.
Or perhaps it's because those drummers were brought up with bands that played through inadequate PA to mike drums and they learnt to hit hard to try and keep up with over the top guitarists and bass players who have amplifiers :|
As a drummer, I do understand your dilemma.
Some say I hit hard, others realise my pro level acoustic kit is loud. Louder than my other kit(s).

If they don't turn up, and you can't replace them, don't go with a drum machine!
Spend some more time, and some more dollars, to work on programmes that let you write drum tracks, with different kit sounds etc.
Then, your sans drummer gigs can be controlled drum sound wise, and you can get some musical satisfaction. Having said that, please avoid the temptation to have the drum level lower than everything else. That's an out of kilter mix that has come about due to studios, unless you're doing 60's covers, then that would be perfect...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#17 Post by HarleyM »

Grant Bunter wrote:
HarleyM wrote: I agree completely. My trouble is, our drummer hammers extremely hard, all the time. I would love to get the drummer to soften up but getting drummers to do anything you want seems impossible. Always seems like the weak link. We're lucky if he shows up, let alone finding anyone else.
There's lots of drummers who will claim artistic license as the reason they hit hard.
Or perhaps it's because those drummers were brought up with bands that played through inadequate PA to mike drums and they learnt to hit hard to try and keep up with over the top guitarists and bass players who have amplifiers :|
As a drummer, I do understand your dilemma.
Some say I hit hard, others realise my pro level acoustic kit is loud. Louder than my other kit(s).

If they don't turn up, and you can't replace them, don't go with a drum machine!
Spend some more time, and some more dollars, to work on programmes that let you write drum tracks, with different kit sounds etc.
Then, your sans drummer gigs can be controlled drum sound wise, and you can get some musical satisfaction. Having said that, please avoid the temptation to have the drum level lower than everything else. That's an out of kilter mix that has come about due to studios, unless you're doing 60's covers, then that would be perfect...
Hi Grant,

Interesting insights. Currently for my drummerless gigs I write all of the drums via midi into Cubase through BFD3 drum VSTs, mixed down with backing tracks which are ran off a ZOOM R8 mini recorder on stage. It works and sounds really well but seriously lacks the energy of playing with a live drummer. I am currently seeking a drummer for this in the Inland Empire area of SoCal.

For the other band with the heavy handed drummer we are trying to get him to invest in a hybrid/electric kit but he hasn't been able to purchase anything yet.

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#18 Post by Grant Bunter »

HarleyM wrote: Hi Grant,

Interesting insights. Currently for my drummerless gigs I write all of the drums via midi into Cubase through BFD3 drum VSTs, mixed down with backing tracks which are ran off a ZOOM R8 mini recorder on stage. It works and sounds really well but seriously lacks the energy of playing with a live drummer.

This is awesome, pleased to hear you have gone to the effort!
I guess the energy has to come from (the rest of) the muso's.


I am currently seeking a drummer for this in the Inland Empire area of SoCal.

For the other band with the heavy handed drummer we are trying to get him to invest in a hybrid/electric kit but he hasn't been able to purchase anything yet.

Cool.
Personally I wish playing on those sorts of kits had the feel and vibe of playing acoustic kits.
Sure, there's been lots of advances, particularly in the last decade, to try and make it so on the manufacturers behalf, for such kits to feel more "real" to drummers...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#19 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Grant Bunter wrote: Personally I wish playing on those sorts of kits had the feel and vibe of playing acoustic kits.
Sure, there's been lots of advances, particularly in the last decade, to try and make it so on the manufacturers behalf, for such kits to feel more "real" to drummers...[/color]
My drummer played acoustic kits for decades......now that he knows how good the e-kit sounds live, he has no desire to go back. He does play acoustic hat and cymbals in the country band, and adds acoustic snare in my band because of the type of music.

As a sound man....it's heaven. But I have to say, we do it right. His module gives me 6 outputs, so I get separate feeds for Kick, snare, crosstick, and toms. Total control and great sound regardless of the size of the venue.....always sounds the same.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Mkulu
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:46 am
Location: Durban,South Africa.

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#20 Post by Mkulu »

HarleyM wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:
HarleyM wrote:most sound guys at shows I've played don't seem to prioritize micing up or even DIing the bass. We don't even get a sound check so it's nice to know I'm at least set on my own. :fingers:
Probably because most bass players are so loud that adding it to the PA in a small room isn't worth the trouble.

Personally, I always want everything in my mixes and try to get those who play too loud to turn down. If I'm not successful, I just take it out of the mix and feel musically frustrated for the rest of the night.
I agree completely. My trouble is, our drummer hammers extremely hard, all the time. I would love to get the drummer to soften up but getting drummers to do anything you want seems impossible. Always seems like the weak link. We're lucky if he shows up, let alone finding anyone else.
There are very good drum machines to replace difficult drummers.Try EZ Drummer.
Or get a plexy screen.

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