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Voltage Regulation 
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:45 pm
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Location: Piper City, IL 60959
Post Voltage Regulation
From time to time I run shows outdoors on a generator. To do this without destroying gear I have a TrippLite LCR2400 in service for each 20A circuit in use. My generators are 240V units so I have a regulator on each phase. The regulator keeps the power clean as the generator dips and surges. This is even an issue on my large stabalized Onan unit.
More important is the line current at the club or other location you are running your sound gear. Digital gear likes clean power not just surge protection. When you start running your gear hard you will start causing swings in line volage. As voltage drops the current must increase to provide the needed watts. Current kills. A good regulator like the TrippLite or a Monster (much more expensive) will save your gear. It will also clean the noise out of the line and consequently clean up your sound as well. I have never messured but it has to be good for a Db or so.

If nothing else think of it as power insurrance. My gear has been saved many times by my regulators. The last time was at a beer tent show where the carny decided to try to plug his ride in with my outlet. Damn that was a big boom!


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File comment: Voltage Regulator at top of pic. Note the yellow lamp below the green. This indicates a dip in input voltage. FYI this is during a bass hit with the system running BELOW war volume. The input circuit is a heavy duty 25A circuit. This illustrates the instability of your supply voltage.
regulator.jpg
regulator.jpg [ 53.63 KiB | Viewed 1088 times ]

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"BaronVonSteve"
Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
The problem with voltage regulators/power conditioners is that, unless very large with very high capacity, they can choke off the current supply to high draw components, ie., amplifiers. For that reason virtually every amplifier manufacturer recommends that said products not be used with their amps. IMO they should only be used with low current draw devices, mixers and processors. Put them in the effects rack, but not the power amp rack.


Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:22 am
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
I too have tried to correct line dips in clubs. To no success. In fact it did squash my power and made the amps surge, not to mention the conditioner toasted after a few shows.

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Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
Ok, so what am I missing? I use large capacity conditioners. The TrippLite shown in the rack is rated for 20A @ 120V duty. Can you safely run a switching amp like the Crown XTi on unregulated power say form a genrator? I would be concerned about damaging the built in digital effects.

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Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:36 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
baronvonsteve wrote:
Ok, so what am I missing? I use large capacity conditioners. The TrippLite shown in the rack is rated for 20A @ 120V duty. Can you safely run a switching amp like the Crown XTi on unregulated power say form a genrator? I would be concerned about damaging the built in digital effects.
Ask Crown. IME high end amps have all the protection they need built in.
The entire 'protection/conditioning' industry never existed prior to PCs. It was quickly learned that PCs needed them because in their zeal to hold prices down PC manufacturers cheaped out on the $5 of parts necessary to protect PC power supplies. Crown/Crest/Yamaha/Qsc et al tend not to pinch pennies quite that hard.


Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
OK, thanks for the info. I am a PC consultant so I guess my experience/or lack of it is showing.

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Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:34 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
Thanks for the replies. I was inspired to call Crown feild support. I spoke with Kevin. It was quite informative. He informed me that it would be a good idea to place the XTi's on a regulator if I was unsure of the quality of the power source PROVIDED that the regulator was rated for the current needed by the amp or amps. He further explained that older model analog amps should not used on a regulator. The difference is in the power supplies and circuitry. Older amps use traditional power supplies that can tolerate swings in voltage. The new amps like the XTi's use switching power supplies and digital circuitry like a computer. The XTi will only tolerate a 10% variance in voltage. If, for instance, the line voltage drops below 105v the amp will display "low line" and will need to be cleared. He said, "If you keep running it at low line you will really get problems." So each pair of my XTi4000s will have a TrippLite LCR2400 since it is rated at 20amps and each XTi is rated at 10amps max but with them limited to -3db there should be enough headroom. My effects and outboard gear have their regultor and most importantly my analog amps are moving to their own unregulated circuit.
Thanks again to Bill for pushing me to get clairification on this issue.

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Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:57 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
My thinking is pretty much in line with your thinking. I'll keep using voltage regulation when I feel it warrants it.

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Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:27 am
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
With generators, one must look for the constant supply type and avoid the "on demand" models.

Those interested in protecting their rack equipment are advised to use a UPS instead.
The Smart-UPS series is a stand-by design that switches to battery power when the line sags or surges.
You don't need a big ($$) one, just one of the Smart series.
The less expensive Back series is not nearly as sophisticated.

You can run your console and all your rack components from a modest Smart-UPS.
As noted above, power amps do well by themselves.

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Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:55 am
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
Cruising furman's website, I found this: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php? ... =P-1800PFR

Says its designed for amplifiers. Any thoughts on its proposed merits?


Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:30 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
la malta wrote:
Cruising furman's website, I found this: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php? ... =P-1800PFR

Says its designed for amplifiers. Any thoughts on its proposed merits?

Consider the source. The only merits are those proposed by amplifier manufacturers.


Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
bgavin wrote:

You can run your console and all your rack components from a modest Smart-UPS.
As noted above, power amps do well by themselves.



Have you done this first hand with an xti? If so how long and what model?


Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:29 am
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
I have now heard from TrippLite and Crown. Crown says that the XTi amps will display "LOW LINE" when voltage drops below 105VAC. They also say that when that happens the amp will need to be cleared and reset. They also say that if a regulator is to be used it must be capable of supplying desired voltage and current needed for to total peak load of the amps in use as well as any other devices. Crown also cautions against the use of UPS's and regulators that use MOV's to limit current below the peak levels needed by the amp. They list the peak current demand of an XTi4000 with a4 Ohm load with the limiter set to- 3Db to be 9.5 Amps. This means that my 2 XTi4000's will need 19 Amps. This then takes me to TrippLite. My LCR2400's will remain stable at 110VAC 20A output with an input as low as 90VAC. However, the line must be capable of supplying 25Amps at that low voltage. If the line drifts lower the regulator will shut down output until minimum voltage is restored. For me this means my 2 XTi4000's get their own LCR2400. My XTi1000 and my other gear get the other LCR2400. The Behringer EP1500 does not get a regulator. I also check with Kelmar/Ashly about my FET500's. The are big nasty old school FET amps. The tech guy at Ashly chuckled and said, No regulator. Our amps are stable to 60VAC!" So it would seem that the regulator issue depends on the specific amp make and model as well as the specific make and model of the regulator.

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Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
Based on what you posted, it sounds like a Honda EU2000ia (120V 2000W max. (16.7A) 1600W rated (13.3A)) will run my xti4000 @ -3db on paper. I have a buddy that has two I am going to test this week and will provide the results here and in my other generator post.


Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:49 am
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Post Re: Voltage Regulation
Ok. For conveniences sake, I just want to plug everything thats in my rack into one 20 amp rated rackmount PDU that plugs into the wall for easy set-up time. This is 3 amps (monitors, tops, subs), an EQ, crossover and mixing board. Only one of those amps will be pushed hard and that is my bass amp QSC 4050HD and I don't want to bottleneck it.

Something like this: http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/mo ... delID=3867 is described as having "Unfiltered electrical pass-through without a power switch makes the PDUMH20 ideal for distributing alternate waveform UPS or generator power in rack enclosures, network closets, and more." This makes me think of it as simply a 20 amp rated power strip with an ammeter (which would be nice) with nothing to bottleneck it.

Does anyone think this will be fine?


Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:14 pm
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