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 Post subject: Re: T39/48 Reducers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:59 am
Posts: 73
Location: Littleton, Colorado
shawn_g wrote:
Sure, the labs weigh a little bit more, but it's certainly not a dealbreaker. If they weren't suitable, they wouldn't be in the plans. I built my T39's with Labs (back when the Kappalites were more expensive) and I think they sound great. Just build them with the Labs and enjoy!
Yup. I have all the speakers for two DR250s and 4 T39s. Picking up 12, 1/2in and 2, 1/8in 5x5 sheets of baltic birch tomorrow and will start making sawdust this weekend while listening to my Omni Tallboy 15!

_________________
Built:
Omni Tallboy 15 w/3015LF (My BBQ music Machine!)
2 Lab 12 T39s 24" Wide
4 OT12s, 2 Melded Array, 2 Flat Array


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 Post subject: Re: T39/48 Reducers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Posts: 5647
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
y2kindyz wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:
The 3012LF is only $5 more, has the same output, and is much lighter.....so, why use the Lab in the first place?


I don't know much about actual speaker applications, but is the sensitivity of the 3012LF the reason for the same output as the LAB12? or are there other factors?

Oscar


There is a whole host of TS parameters that are involved in calculating voltage displacement limits for horn loaded cabs, in a decreasing order of significance.
The top two factors are Xmax and impedance.
The 3012lf has lower Xmax than the Lab 12, but higher impedance, so they work out to be the same in horn loaded cabs when it comes to output.
I'll just throw in at this point that, the lab 12 has significantly higher Vd than the 3012lf, but ends up with the same voltage displacement limit, so, while it is often stated here in the forum "displacement is king", Vd is only useful in many cases to compare one driver to another (usually to a smaller diameter driver).

It's the design that dictates response. It's the driver that dictates output...

_________________
Built:
2 x DR 250 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
4 x 20" BP102 T39's, 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded underway.
3 x WH8 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...


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 Post subject: Re: T39/48 Reducers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 5372
Location: Warren, MI
The Titans were designed, from the get-go, around the KappaLite 3015LF for the T48, and the BassLite 2010 and 2012. Then, Bill helped design the HL10C, and it worked perfectly in slim models of Titans. Then, the KappaLite 3012LF was introduced, and its specs were PERFECT for Titans, especially the T39. Fast forward to ~2009 or so, and China decides it is going to cut neodymium magnet production WAY down, to artificially raise the market prices, because China has the only working mine that produces material for neo magnets. BOOM! Prices for neo drivers skyrocket! Since Bill's designs are all about using inexpensive drivers, he modified the Titan designs to make the Lab drivers work. That is the only reason they are in the plans.

y2kindyz wrote:
I don't know much about actual speaker applications, but is the sensitivity of the 3012LF the reason for the same output as the LAB12? or are there other factors?


In these designs, raw open-air driver sensitivity doesn't mean much. Fs is the factor at play here. Bill said it elsewhere on the forum. I don't really care for the Labs, simply because they don't offer anything but headaches and backaches in the end. I don't think they are a bad driver, for the THT, they are the $hit! It's just my opinion, YMMV.

Grant Bunter wrote:
There is a whole host of TS parameters that are involved in calculating voltage displacement limits for horn loaded cabs, in a decreasing order of significance.
The top two factors are Xmax and impedance.
The 3012lf has lower Xmax than the Lab 12, but higher impedance, so they work out to be the same in horn loaded cabs when it comes to output.
I'll just throw in at this point that, the lab 12 has significantly higher Vd than the 3012lf, but ends up with the same voltage displacement limit, so, while it is often stated here in the forum "displacement is king", Vd is only useful in many cases to compare one driver to another (usually to a smaller diameter driver).

It's the design that dictates response. It's the driver that dictates output...


+100

_________________
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice


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 Post subject: Re: T39/48 Reducers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 5372
Location: Warren, MI
Tom Smit wrote:
DJPhatman wrote:
Except the HL10C, of course. Bad ass little drivers. Pity they are extinct now. I still have 1, BNIB, waiting for a home in a Table Tuba.

:shock: :shock:
:twisted:


What? I told you I had 1 left for a TT, but it's not a priority right now. Shoot, I also have a Tang Band W8-740 that I might do a Tr Tuba for my Silverado. And a big box of parts for 2 Omni 15s. And a box of piezos. I'll most likely sell the piezos, or trade them for labor...

_________________
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice


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 Post subject: Re: T39/48 Reducers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Posts: 6340
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada
DJPhatman wrote:
Tom Smit wrote:
DJPhatman wrote:

:shock: :shock:
:twisted:


What? .

I was just thinking of how much that thing will pound with the HL10C!!!! 8) :lol:

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TomS


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 Post subject: Re: T39/48 Reducers
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 am
Posts: 5372
Location: Warren, MI
Tom Smit wrote:
I was just thinking of how much that thing will pound with the HL10C!!!! 8) :lol:


Not any more than with the Tang Band or the MCM 55-2421. It will just take a LOT more power, but since I live in an apartment-converted-to-condo, It will not be of much use to me here. Except to really, really, REALLY piss off my neighbors... :twisted: :evil: :shock: :lol: :fruit:

_________________
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice


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