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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
I started building 4 titan 48, i'm near to finish, but I need ask you something, in doc you put some drivers, one of them is eminence 3015lf but I see 3015lf-4 is similar but works with 4ohms, i think is better to aproach my amplifiers (hsd m6 and m5).
Use this driver is a good idea for titan 48?, i cant waste more money for other amplifiers or to get lab15....

I hope you can answer me

Regards


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Posts: 6092
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Jony_850 wrote:
I started building 4 titan 48, i'm near to finish, but I need ask you something, in doc you put some drivers, one of them is eminence 3015lf but I see 3015lf-4 is similar but works with 4ohms, i think is better to aproach my amplifiers (hsd m6 and m5).
Use this driver is a good idea for titan 48?, i cant waste more money for other amplifiers or to get lab15....

I hope you can answer me

Regards



Rarely are you better off going with a 4 ohm driver in a single driver cab. Don't recognize those amps.....what is the make and model?

_________________

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
Bruce Weldy wrote:

Rare are you better off going with a 4 ohm driver in a single driver cab. Don't recognize those amps.....what is the make and model?


Thank you, the amps aré made by tecnoson

Hsd m6 specs are:
(8 Ohm): 2x600 W
(4 Ohm): 2x1.050 W<-------- this config
(2 Ohm): 2x1.400 W
(BRIDGE) (8 Ohm): 1.750 W
(BRIDGE) (4 Ohm): 2.300 W

Hsd m5 specs are:
(8 Ohm): 2x500 W
(4 Ohm): 2x850 W<----- this config but i dont be sure if is Too short or risk for clip?
(2 Ohm): 2x1.300 W
(BRIDGE) (8 Ohm): 1.460 W
(BRIDGE) (4 Ohm): 1.920 W



Now we have 3 moré o less finished waiting for his warnex Paint and other waiting for assembly. Well and old musicson ip880 in prodecture of restored.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
It looks like that hsd m6 could power all 4 cabs if you go with the 8 ohm drivers. 2 cabs per channel.

Don't be too concerned with squeezing every watt out of the amp as you can. The difference between full power and half power is only 3 decibels which is barely noticeable.

If you have an ac voltmeter or dmm, play a sine wave through your amps just below clipping and read the voltage coming out of the speaker terminals. No speakers need to be hooked up. That will tell you what your amps aee capable of.

4 ohm drivers just hinder you down the road, I'd stay away from them.

_________________
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Posts: 6092
Location: New Braunfels, TX
CoronaOperator wrote:
It looks like that hsd m6 could power all 4 cabs if you go with the 8 ohm drivers. 2 cabs per channel.

Don't be too concerned with squeezing every watt out of the amp as you can. The difference between full power and half power is only 3 decibels which is barely noticeable.

If you have an ac voltmeter or dmm, play a sine wave through your amps just below clipping and read the voltage coming out of the speaker terminals. No speakers need to be hooked up. That will tell you what your amps aee capable of.

4 ohm drivers just hinder you down the road, I'd stay away from them.


Yep, he's right all the way.

Two per channel at 8 ohms each will be a perfect match for that amp if it meets it's published specs.

_________________

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
CoronaOperator wrote:
It looks like that hsd m6 could power all 4 cabs if you go with the 8 ohm drivers. 2 cabs per channel.

Don't be too concerned with squeezing every watt out of the amp as you can. The difference between full power and half power is only 3 decibels which is barely noticeable.

If you have an ac voltmeter or dmm, play a sine wave through your amps just below clipping and read the voltage coming out of the speaker terminals. No speakers need to be hooked up. That will tell you what your amps aee capable of.

4 ohm drivers just hinder you down the road, I'd stay away from them.


In what frecuency of sine wave I must play? An how many volts i News to recive for this config?

This are the options 1 per channel http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF_4.pdf

Or your óption with 2 per channel http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF.pdf

What do you think about?

4ohm driver are dangerous?

Regards


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Posts: 6092
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Jony_850 wrote:
In what frecuency of sine wave I must play? An how many volts i News to recive for this config?

This are the options 1 per channel http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF_4.pdf

Or your óption with 2 per channel http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015LF.pdf

What do you think about?

4ohm driver are dangerous?

Regards


It's not that they are dangerous, but you would be running each channel down to 2 ohms if you run 4 - 4 ohm boxes on that amp. No reason to stress the amp like that when running 4 - 8 ohm boxes will get the same volume and the amp won't have to work so hard and possibly overheat.

Just put a 60hz test tone through the amp and run the volume up until the amp starts to light up the clip lights. Then measure that output. That will tell you how many volts it puts out. Don't do this with any speakers hooked up.

_________________

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
Bruce Weldy wrote:
It's not that they are dangerous, but you would be running each channel down to 2 ohms if you run 4 - 4 ohm boxes on that amp. No reason to stress the amp like that when running 4 - 8 ohm boxes will get the same volume and the amp won't have to work so hard and possibly overheat.

Just put a 60hz test tone through the amp and run the volume up until the amp starts to light up the clip lights. Then measure that output. That will tell you how many volts it puts out. Don't do this with any speakers hooked up.


Bruce thank you for the test prodecture.

But wait, i think test a dont explain well,i dont want to put in 2ohm configuration.
Use the 4ohm speaker for this config

Use m6 un stereo (2x1050watt 4ohm) with 2 kappalite 3015lf 4ohm and use the m5 amp in stereo (2x850watt 4ohm) with other 2 kappalite 3015lf 4ohm. 1 speaker per channel. Would be ok?

Or better other config with other speakers.... is posible that i can buy another m5 or m6 depends which be better option


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Posts: 6092
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Jony_850 wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote:
It's not that they are dangerous, but you would be running each channel down to 2 ohms if you run 4 - 4 ohm boxes on that amp. No reason to stress the amp like that when running 4 - 8 ohm boxes will get the same volume and the amp won't have to work so hard and possibly overheat.

Just put a 60hz test tone through the amp and run the volume up until the amp starts to light up the clip lights. Then measure that output. That will tell you how many volts it puts out. Don't do this with any speakers hooked up.


Bruce thank you for the test prodecture.

But wait, i think test a dont explain well,i dont want to put in 2ohm configuration.
Use the 4ohm speaker for this config

Use m6 un stereo (2x1050watt 4ohm) with 2 kappalite 3015lf 4ohm and use the m5 amp in stereo (2x850watt 4ohm) with other 2 kappalite 3015lf 4ohm. 1 speaker per channel. Would be ok?

Or better other config with other speakers.... is posible that i can buy another m5 or m6 depends which be better option


There is absolutely no reason to run 4 ohm drivers. By putting them on separate amps, you won't be able to use the same limiter (if you are using a driverack or some other processor) for both amps as they put out different voltage....

If you ever decide to change your amp configuration or add more speakers, you've made it harder and more expensive.

As long as the amp delivers the voltage that it claims, then running all 4 off of the same amp will not be a problem. And it is way easier to re-configure in the future with 8 ohm cabs than with 4 ohm cabs.

Can I ask? Why do you want the 4 ohm driver? Do you think it is somehow louder than the 8 ohm? Or, is there some other reason?

_________________

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Jony_850 wrote:
In what frecuency of sine wave I must play? An how many volts i News to recive for this


60hz is good for a test, others frequencies are ok too. If you can get 60 volts out of that big amp it can run all 4 boxes with 8 ohm drivers.

_________________
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
Bruce Weldy wrote:

There is absolutely no reason to run 4 ohm drivers. By putting them on separate amps, you won't be able to use the same limiter (if you are using a driverack or some other processor) for both amps as they put out different voltage....

If you ever decide to change your amp configuration or add more speakers, you've made it harder and more expensive.

As long as the amp delivers the voltage that it claims, then running all 4 off of the same amp will not be a problem. And it is way easier to re-configure in the future with 8 ohm cabs than with 4 ohm cabs.

Can I ask? Why do you want the 4 ohm driver? Do you think it is somehow louder than the 8 ohm? Or, is there some other reason?



The only reason for use 4ohm driver in separately amps is because i thought i dont have enought power to move 2 drivers with one amps, but i'll made the test and tell us.
I dont have procesor is necesary? My config is mixer ecler nuo 4(has outup 1v with 0db), eq, crossover, and. Splitters, next amps. Is ok?

You have reason to work with 8ohm driver is better for the future more easy. I dont now if this is usefull m6 specs are this:

-Potencia de salida (8 Ohm): 2x600 W

-Potencia de salida (4 Ohm): 2x1.050 W

-Potencia de salida (2 Ohm): 2x1.400 W

-Potencia de salida (BRIDGE) (8 Ohm): 1.750 W

-Potencia de salida (BRIDGE) (4 Ohm): 2.300 W

-Sensibilidad de entrada: 0,77/1,0/1,44V

-Impedancia: 20 Kohms

-Respuesta en frecuencia: 5Hz-50Khz

-THD 20Hz-20Khz (8 Ohm): 0,05 %

-Slew rate: 40V/usec

-Relación señal/ruido: 103 dB

-Damping: >400

-Seguridad: cortocircuito/temperatura/ultrasonic/ON-OFF/limitador/Protección RF

-Peso: 23 kg.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
The problem with listed specs is that they sometimes stretch the truth and overstate their performance. A voltmeter doesn't lie.

You don't need a processor, send the amp a signal anyway you can, crank the gains until just before the red lights come on and read the voltage.

With 4 ohm drivers you are pretty much stuck 1 cab per channel. With 8 ohm drivers you can safely put 2 cabs on one channel. In your case then you only need the 1 amp.

_________________
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
CoronaOperator wrote:
Jony_850 wrote:
In what frecuency of sine wave I must play? An how many volts i News to recive for this


60hz is good for a test, others frequencies are ok too. If you can get 60 volts out of that big amp it can run all 4 boxes with 8 ohm drivers.


After exit work i made the test, you made this account? P=V^2 / R? 450+450= v^2 / 4? That's is correct? I see impedance curve in different test with different boxes and between 40hz and 90hz and is little more than 4ohms maybe I need little more than 60V?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Yes, impedance isn't a constant.
It varies with frequency. Then once you put a driver in a box it all changes again. Power isn't the only limiting factor of a woofer. X-max or how far the driver can travel before it destroys itself is also a factor. They both come into play. The designer of these subs did all the hard work and calculated/simulated and backuped the results with real world testing to verify those results. Trying to second guess that would take you back to square one which was many many years ago.

Ps: these boxes are not toys, if built precisely to the plans (including all the braces) they will outperform anything out there.

_________________
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:05 am
Posts: 11
I made outup voltage test with m6 amp, I use 60hz tone, with ecler nuo 4 mixer (all knobs in 0db) the outup signal in 0db are 1v, I put amp sensibility in 1v, I started turn up the volume and amps didn't clip in full volume tester shows 47,5Volts.

I made other test with 0,7volts of sensibility, thinking when a pased 47volts the amp maybe it I'll start clip but no, the tester show 68volts whitout clipping


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