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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:33 am
Posts: 121
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Hi all,

we're using a venue at the moment that can hold around 300 ~ 350 people.
We're taking our full BFM rig (2xOT12 | 4xT48) and hook it as a mono stack facing the dance floor.

the room is a rectangle shape with a bar on either end, and a dancefloor in the middle.

The left hand side of the dance floor is the stage, there is no dj booth, there's only a stage that stands maybe 1meter high and goes the whole length of the dance floor.

The only place we can hook our 4 titans is on top of the stage, center of the room.

While I know that it is not a great idea, there's literally no other choice.

Here's my problem, the back wall of the stage is not a wall, but a huge mirror that goes across the entire room.

So even though I can put the sub stack on the center of the wall, it's either facing everyone's head or facing the mirror.

here's a pic we took of the last time we set it up there:

https://imgur.com/a/g4FC2

front view:
https://imgur.com/a/15ISG

Our biggest problem is that the wall on the other side is waaaay to close and 250hz resonates all over so we ended up cutting maybe 3db there.

Any ideas on how to place them to get something a bit more flat?

maybe setting them up in 45º as if they had a v-plate but without the plate ?

Maybe moving the tops to a stereo setup on stands instead of on top of the subs?

Or is the room too small for it to make a difference ?

Would it be wise to turn it to face the mirror ?? (i seriously doubt it lol)


Anyway, any help would be appreciated

Thanks ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:33 am
Posts: 121
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
oh and before you ask

no, there are no curtains to cover the mirror :P


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 374
Location: Perth, Western Australia
What's behind the mirror? If there is a space behind the mirror like a room or something then perhaps its an option to push the subs back to the mirror still facing out (depending on where the nearest wall is). You need to keep the mouth of the subs outside of the range of 2-8 feet from a wall to avoid big cancellations in the sub's passband.

Can you get there a bit earlier and have a play around with moving the subs a bit?

I would def have the Otops split running stereo on stands, you'll get more even coverage from the tops that way.Other than that, EQ is your friend, but sometimes nulls are unavoidable in a certain configuration.

I did a gig where the stage was in the corner of a big room and set up a stack of 6 V-plated T30's 9 feet out from the walls in the corner, in front of the stage on the dance floor. Still had a dip at around 80hz from memory, in some places on the dance floor. EQ couldn't fix it, the only thing would have been to adjust the position of the subs, maybe further out.

_________________
Built:
6 T30 (24", 3012LF)
2 OT12 (MA, 3012HO)

Running:
DCX2496
XTi 2002
XTi 4002
TRAKTOR Z2
TECHNICS 1210 Mk5's


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:37 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Bellingham, WA
What's at the other end of the rectangular side opposite of the bar? I'd guess probably bathrooms, correct? Would there be an option to put the subs on the other side of the bar and then delay the OTop's to compensate for the distance?

If the stage is 1m (roughly 3ft) then you may be adding additional cancellations without them being on the floor (3ft is about 95hz). Also, how high is the ceiling?

I'd agree with commander_dan about splitting the tops unless the bartenders want less sound on their side for taking orders.

Is there a reason for not V-Plating?

_________________
2 x 21" T30's with Lab12's
2 x 28" T30's with Lab12's
2 x OTop12 with Deltalite 2512


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:33 am
Posts: 121
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Ok, a few questions here I'll try to answer all in this post.

The mirror is next to the wall that leads to the next building. It's a thick stone wall and there's somewhat of acoustic padding between the mirror and the wall.

We can be there as early as we wish, but the shows we do on that room have been by another promoter using our soundsystem so they have last say on the position.
We just have to make it work as good as possible.
(I know this is just plain stupid but I'm sure all of you have been through this before)

The OTop coverage hasn't been an issue to be honest.
We found out that because the subs are on that stage, if we point the top OTOP around 20, 30º down (using a small jig between the two OTops) it compensates the sub position and fills the entire room.

For the barzone and stairs there are a few Inhouse JBL's on the ceiling that we run as well to maintain volume throughout.


There's a bar on each end of the room.

depending on attendance they'll either open 1 or 2 bars but usually it's decided beforehand.

We have a strict db volume cap in place, owner needs the overall volume at entrance some 15meter away be around 90db so we have a huge low cut everywhere so V-Plate was never considered for this venue.

The stage is around maybe 80cm tall, a bit less maybe. We've tried to have it all the way forward to have no lip with the stage and be sort of flushed with the dancefloor but still have to try and push it all the way back to be next to the mirror.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:08 pm 
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jmanso wrote:
We have a strict db volume cap in place, owner needs the overall volume at entrance some 15meter away be around 90db .
I can fart at 90dB. :loler:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:33 am
Posts: 121
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
I've been trying to explain that for a while :P

But owner relies on a shitty android dbmeter that showed 84db when my ios Decibel X app showed 124db :P

I'm pretty sure none were correct but it was def 100db+


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:06 pm 
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That's almost possible if his meter is A weighted and yours is C weighted, as A weighted doesn't measure bass. I doubt you actually had 124dB 'C', 114dB 'C' is quite loud. Anyway, if he says 90dB 'A' is OK turn up the subs and don't worry about it, his meter won't know the difference.


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